Eclipse Phase MUSH

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Eclipse Phase MUSH

I'm not sure if this is where this post should go here or somewhere else... here's hoping.

I've become interested in starting up an Eclipse Phase Mush. I've got a computer that should handle the mush stuff, though I'll need someone to walk me through getting everything on it setup (linux is the only thing that will run TinyMUSH, I've been told, and I'm not all that up to speed making it work).

Additionally, I'll need some people who are able coders. Theme and story I can handle. Code that's in place, I can also do in a staffly-manner (if there are +help files). But making the code? That's the kicker.

I've got an ad asking for coders on Gateway mush (or I used to, and will soon again), but replies have been scarce. Any help from people out there would be awesome.

Thanks!

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Setting up a good mush is pretty hard - I used to work one called CthulhuMud which has since moved into other hands. So really my question to you is this - are you leaning towards the Mud side (where the combat system etc is driven by the program) or more towards the Mush side (where you're on freeform RP, rolls unneeded)?

Some key points of advice:

1) Get it started. As fast as you can. With minimal rooms and rules if you have to. Do. Not. Let. Perfection. Stop. You. (cause it will). Even if you have ten rooms and 3 classes - launch it. Let your initial batch of players become builders and help you expand from there.

2) But don't let your builders run the shop. Someone needs to be in the lead position, and lead by being in front of the pack not directing from behind - you're signing up for a big piece of work here.

3) Elevate the sane. Builders are awesome, even the crazy ones (prune the unproductive once). But a crazy admin is not awesome in any way shape or form. You want to pick up administrative staff that are mature, sane, reasonable and tactful. You might already know this part of things - but online egomania is... a thing. Be alert for it. Wink

I've been kicking around the idea of a MUD with a friend of mine, but honestly haven't had the time to run it, promote it or build it. However, it occurs to me... I may have some backend code for you to look at. Written in C - very clean code without the remnants of years of semi-competent development work. Some minimal reactive AI, and - the real kicker - MySQL database for storage. Which means you could build a a front end system to update the DB on the fly. Lemme go find some of my old CM notes, if nothing else it might be be good design to consider.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I'm looking for a mix of the two. There will be no roving mobs to kill, like you'd find in a mud. However, it won't just be a social place, there will be room for all sorts of campaign-type things.

My coding abilities are... limited, to say the least. I can give you the gist of what I'd like the final product to look like, command-wise. But getting there, I (sadly) won't be much help on. I can pull code from some of the places I staff on, but beyond that, I'm fairly limited to writing up new things.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Hmm - lemme kick around some of these old code snippets and see what I can come up with.

The more clear an idea you get on exactly what command structure you want your players to have - the more likely I'll be able to point you to a code base that will serve you well with minimal work (or be able to sculpt one for you with some of the code I have hanging around from back in the day).

For example: There's a drupal RPG module I've been eyeing for a few months now, looking for a good excuse to update... Wink It might actually work for your needs.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Posting is up on Gateway Mush. Like I mention there, I'm hoping for a TinyMush codebase, and to use H-Space for coded spaceflight, cause... why /wouldn't/ you have spaceflight in this system? It may be expensive, but doable.

An example of the way I'd like to see the code work...

+roll Disguise+20

Combat would work similarly to DSS. You would first need to equip a weapon, and we will presume the target has their armor equipped, too.

+attack (target)+/-(modifier)

It will automatically compare your attack roll, the target's fray roll, weapon modifiers, armor modifiers, and... whatever else is needed. The +/- modifier I mention is for external things, like lighting, and the like (totally not as familiar with the rules as I should be).

It will not auto-apply damage to your +sheet, however. That would be mean.

Now, maybe I'm not familiar enough with the system for the +attack thing. It's more than likely I'm overlooking something, and if that's the case, fine. Just a normal +roll Beam Weapons+(whatever) command, and then deal with the fray roll as normal. I just figured the auto-calculating combat option would be easier. HOWEVER, the normal combat would totally let me learn the rules instead of relying on code.

I mentioned H-Space way up there. It's pretty close to realistic space flight... the ability to cut your engines and just drift, and the like. Or at least, in it's current version. There is a lack of drag for turning... you almost have to stop and turn and start again. It was kind of annoying.

And now I'm just babbling. So many ideas, somewhat difficult to get them out. Sorry.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Requirements/Ideals
I am putting this down to work up a list of requirements for what a good EP Mush should look like. Please feel free to add/change these as this is just a start to try and work up a good outline.

I would start out such a Mush, with around 10 rooms, representing a single small habitat, as well as several OOC rooms.

Something along the lines of:

OOC Greeting Room
-First room Players encounter. Perhaps allows player to easily change from one character to another.
>Exits to: OOC Lounge, Character Generation Rooms

OOC Lounge
-Place to idle and talk, everything here is ooc.
>exits to: OOC Greeting Room, Generic RP Rooms

Character Generation Rooms
-A series of rooms which take the Player through the CG process.
>exits to: OOC Lounge

Generic RP Rooms
-A single Lounge area connected to several rooms used for IC plotting allowing the GM to change the rooms desc.
>Exits: OOC Lounge

IC Areas
-PCs teleport to IC areas with a 'goic' command or something similar. The command should return them to the last room they visited. The layout should be that of a small habitat at first.

Character Generation
>Should be as automated as possible keeping track of what players choose and how much more they can spend. Ideally all generation rules should be built in allowing players to create characters with as little set and approved by hand as possible.
>All characters should be made with a significant background. Enough background to show that the player has invested a good bit of thought into who the character is and has gotten some idea of their character rather than just put the points together.

OOC Chatting
>There needs to be at least two major chat channels which can be turned on and off by players, a public ooc channel and a new player channel. The former for basic table talk, the latter for help with rules and getting new players up to speed.

Rolling
>Ideally I'd like the Players to roll dice with the system. That is instead of typing in a command to attack something they instead type in a command to roll an attack and the game is resolved normally through human decision making rather than an automated attack system. The system should help keep track of stats and all the things that are normally assigned down to paper with a table-top RPG but allow the players to decide how things go. That said as much as possible should be automated up to the point of decision making in order to streamline things.

Player Tracking
>Ideally I'd like to see a system where a player can log into the system with one user name and access multiple characters from there rather than having to log in to each character separately. This would make it easier to track who is playing what PC and possibly allow for Players to have NPCs or Lesser PCs as well. Lesser PCs might be useful for shadow emulations, muses or other small AIs.
>Also I'd like to tie some of the in-game rewards to the player rather than the character. Especially rewards for GMing.

Character Tracking
>Needs to be able to keep track of all the basic information found on the character sheet, and ideally should be displayed in a similar manner or at least a manner reminiscent of the character sheet.
>Players should be able to bring up parts of their character sheets w/o having to call up the whole.

Rez Point Tracking/Awarding
>Admins should be able to award res points directly.
>Players should also be able to reward res points but through a system built to prevent abuse. DenverMush's +nom system is a good example.

GMing
>Any player can GM a plot. Plots that would cause changes to the mush in general would require staff approval. Players should consent to be part of a GM's plot but once that the GM should have final basic say, with some staff oversight in case of major abuses on the part of the GM. For the most part what a Player as a GM says goes.
>Logs of such plots would be submitted to staff for review and rewards given out based on that review/recommendation of GM.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I have nothing really helpful to add but just want to say that I am excited at the idea. My first thought after reading through the book book originally and realizing I am not gonna have an easy time finding people to play Eclipse Phase with was that it would be the kind of idea I would want to play on a MUSH.

I know nothing at all about coding, or were even to start to try and learn it, but would be the first person to sign up to help in any other way, and if you get something up and going will sign up to create a character the instant I can.

I will say for preference a more MUSH like game with freeform role playing and a coded skill system, or just a roller and coded character sheets we can check our rolls against, is what I am most interested in.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Whee, update!

On the one hand, I'm wanting to use TinyMUSH as a baseline for the code. This is the system used on Shadowrun: Denver, and I'm told TinyMUSH allows for many spiffy things that other things, such as PennMush, can not handle.

On the other hand, the coded space system I'm wanting to use for the game - HSpace - is coded for PennMush.

On a third, Zaphod-like hand, I can't get anything to install on my Ubuntu box, so the first two points are moot.

For code - I go to school with one of the staffers on Denver, and have only seen a small portion of how extensive their code is. While I have no intention to up and take the non +roll code from there, much of the other things there (+last for channels, the +info things, and so on) are outstandingly amazing. I'm of a mind to ask Wyld if he would be against staffing on the Eclipse Phase game, or at least helping with the code side of things. He is on break at the moment, so I don't know if/when I'll have the chance to talk to him again.

For grid - I'm not sure how I'll be wanting to go about this.

An idea would follow what I've seen on New York City (a New World of Darkness place I've recently started to hang out on). Not all exits are visible... just major grid ones. From there, you check +exits. Poor example: Times Square shows Midtown, Tudor City, Meatpacking District, and Garment District. However, you could check +exits to see Toys'R'Us.

That's all for IC areas, obviously.

I've not addressed things in order like I meant to. Sorry.

OOC greeting is pretty obvious... all charbits loggin in show up in the same room. Easy enough.

OOC Lounge also easy enough.

Chargen I forsee as being a nightmare. Especially due to needing to spend a minimum amount of points on something, but you can spend more, if you like. I image it's doable, but... difficult.

RP rooms are easy enough. Branch them off of the OOC room, like on Denver, I think, would be easiest.

Channels are silly easy, with TinyMUSH. The difficulty would be implementing the +last function, which I've only ever seen on Denver.

+rolling... what I suggested about combat wasn't the only way to go. I /would/ like to have coded items that list their modifiers and such. If a denver-like voucher system is used, that's fine, but staff would be required to go over items with a fine tooth comb. Make sure everything is up to par/accurate rules-wise.

Alt tracking is easy enough. While 1 login for multiple characters should be doable - especially with a system where there will need to be different stats based on your morph - I dislike the idea.

Rez points from staff I like. From +noms... I'm not too sure about. The advantage of EP is that there is no karma pool to make things insane. If skill raises are not automated? Then I'm less inclined to be against it.

GMing? Sure thing. Anyone can do it. Wiki-ing logs would be the way to go, because I'm not sure how the e-mail system for Denver Logs work.

I'm getting to @mailing some of the coders I know who's ideas aren't too out of kilter from my own. Bobby is a pretty good one. WolfWings might be up for helping out, too. And that's only form Denver. There are some people from a star wars mush I'll pester, cause they're good people, too.

I ALWAYS END UP RAMBLING! WHY?

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Eclipse Phase is pretty neat. I particularly like the way the setting allows for awesome space adventures without too much fear of losing a character permanently.

For the love of God, do not use HSpace. Why would anyone use HSpace? Whyyyy? I've never seen it work well and I am about ready to claim that it is theoretically impossible for it to do so. It's basically, "Let's take a break from RPing to play a text-based flight sim!" At best, it's "Let's do a combat scene and determine IC outcomes based on which RPer is better at flying things with text!" At worst, it's "Yep, spending hours a day shipping turnips back and forth between planets." It's not just "gamey-ness" (less roleplay, more *players* competing with each other), it's really boring gamey-ness.

tl;dr: text-based flight sim.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I have to agree. There is no reason to add any overblown mechanics for space flight. Just use it as part of plotline when it comes up most of the actual role-playing and plotting will be done in the same few generic rooms, and that is fine.

Keep It Simple!

Most long distance travel in EP happens via farcaster which is instantaneous. At most you might want a travel queue to simulate the time between when something is sent to one part of the solar system and arrives to another and even that IMO is reaching too far.

Set the mush in a particular place. Good candidates would be Earth Orbit, Luna, Mars, Venus, the belt, Jupiter. Ideally I'd say set it near Earth as that seems to give a good range of inner and outer system travelers and there is some familiarity there.

Any travel time less than a day is trivial to gloss over. Put the setting in a place where travel times are relatively short. You want players to be able to play with their characters when ever they log on and not have to worry if their PCs are still moving from point a to b.

That said part of EP is its wide setting and even in the "neighborhood" around Earth/Luna travel times still do add up. Allowing for multiple characters from the word go might help solve this problem. One PC enroute you can play the other. The Alt policy would have to be much more in-depth than that of Denver mush, but I think it could be made to work(one reason why I am an advocate of setting up a Player account and linking character accounts off of that).

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I think I'll have to third the skepticism regarding HSpace. I've never enjoyed it, and in my experience it's mostly just a hindrance to the action.

I think it's particularly iffy when it comes to Eclipse Phase: They don't offer any stats for ships, mechanics for flight (on that scale) or ship combat. Heck, they even outright said they would never do that, declared that realistically the better ship would always win, and essentially said: "Just let the players make some rolls, give them some exciting descriptions, and let them get through it alive." That's paraphrased, but pretty close anyhow.

That said, I do hope to see an Eclipse Phase MUSH.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I'm kind of hoping in the midst of all this talk that you've gotten something, even if it's a few rooms and a morph put together and online. Wink MUSHs at their birth are most vulnerable to the disease of perfectionism.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Any further word on this? Has the idea of a MUSH fallen by the wayside, or is this still something that's being considered? I'd love to play on it, though I'm not a coder, unfortunately, and have been away from MUSHing long enough that I'd have to refresh what rudimentary coding I did know.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I'd even caution against waiting on character creation rooms to start. As in 'Don't.'

Start out with freeform or references to the (Creative Commons, available online) rules, but get some roleplay interaction going.

Lack of interaction kills. This is why you don't want perfection in starting. Actual play people can get involved in trumps prettified rooms and coded game functionality.

(Godded CaribMUSH back in its brief day.)

Ahhhh, just checked dates. Looks like this is already stillborn. Sad

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Alright, I know this discussion may have stalled out, but I'm going to make this MUSH happen. I'll post more details soon but I am currently in the process of getting the basics set up.

The code base will be PennMUSH (which I'm much more comfortable coding with than Tiny, sorry anyone who vastly prefers Tiny) and I'm hoping to knock out some basic helpful commands related to dice rolls & character sheets to facilitate roleplay as the game develops.

Interested? You can send me an email: kevin@atimeofeclipse.net or you can just await an update here asap with hosting details.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Outstanding! One thing I'd definitely encourage is, in addition to whatever standard IC area you have, you also make the game friendly to hosting people's online tabletop games. As small a playerbase as you're going to have with an EP MUSH, anything to get additional people there and online is a good thing, and some of them might very well make a character to play on the MUSH as well.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I agree wholeheartedly and am already planning an area set aside for dynamic virtual tabletop use.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Ok, I cannot stress enough how completely stripped-down things currently are (since I just started the game a few days ago) but I thought I'd provide the EP community with the following:

Telnet (or point your preferred MUSH client) to:
atimeofeclipse.net port 9889

Currently, there are only a few rooms and a dice rolling command, but the rooms are capable of handling temporary dynamic descriptions (for whatever scenes you might want to run) and the roller will allow you to input a target number to compare against your roll.

For example: typing "+roll 46" (without quotes, for those of you unfamiliar with MUSHing) will roll a d100 and let you know the result alongside the target number (and if you have the ANSI flag set, the roll result will be either green if successful or red if a failure).

Anyway, if you want to come check it out, you're welcome to. I'll be working regularly on improving it from this point forward, but I wanted to note what the game can currently offer to those interested in MUSHing within the EP theme/system.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

I won't be able to contribute much at present, but I'm definitely interested to see how this plays out. I have a friend who's done some MUD/MUSH development in the past as well that I'll point here.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

It's great to see this get started - as I mentioned in my earlier posts - just getting *something* up and working on improving it little bit by little bit - will get you so much farther than waiting for everything to be perfect before launching. You'll get a lot more commitment from people who help you build it.

Best of luck - I look forward to hearing updates as you work on it. Smile

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

As an update -

There's at least one group who's begun meeting on the game to make use of the dice-rolling commands (see below) and the dynamic rooms. I'm continuing to expand the game's code provisions and am setting up the foundation for a solid CG & character sheet system.

So, connection info to the game is: atimeofeclipse.net port 9889
- You can connect with a telnet program, but I'd recommend a MUSH client program. Among the most popular are SimpleMU (http://simplemu.onlineroleplay.com/) and MUSHclient (http://www.gammon.com.au/downloads/dlmushclient.htm), although if you use any Linux distro or OS X, tinyfugue is by far the most powerful. Another widely-used OS X client is Atlantis (http://www.riverdark.net/atlantis/).

If you've never MUSHed before, I recommend you come check out the system & interface - I hope you'll find it intriguing as an alternative to IRC or IM-based chatrooms. There are a number of commands & functions available to help with roleplay, and I'd be happy to post more about them or show you how they work in the MUSH itself.

At the very least, the following commands are available to facilitate EP roleplay:

#1. +roll [target]
Example: +roll 67

This command will make a public dice roll (visible to all in the same room as you) and note the result and its margin of failure or success - and if it happens to be a critical result, it'll note that too.

-----
#2. +roll/gm [target]
Example: +roll/gm 34

This command will make a private dice roll, the results of which are only visible to you. This command will still note the same result details as with the previous command.

-----
#3. +roll/dmg [#]d10[+|-|/|x][#]
Example: +roll/dmg 3d10+4

This command is used for damage purposes. The results provided from this roll will be public.

-----
#4. +roll/dmg/gm [#]d10[+|-|/|x][#]
Example: +roll/dmg/gm 2d10-2

This command works just as the previous command, except that the roll is private and only the roller will see the results.

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

So the game is still up, although I've stalled out somewhat on the chargen automation (taking & passing those pesky qualifying exams for my PhD became a higher priority).

That said, we've got at least one group meeting regularly that uses the space as a virtual tabletop (it's the group Tyrnis is running, much of which has been discussed on the EP forums).

There's certainly plenty of room for more, and I'd definitely be interested in talking with people who might want to put together a cohesive focused theme for a static grid on the game to be used outside of or in-between VTT sessions - code knowledge is not a necessity, as I can take care of most stuff we might need.

Shoot me a PM or talk to me on the game (as Kale) - atimeofeclipse.net 9889

Thanks!

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Re: Eclipse Phase MUSH

Another brief update - there have been one or two folks logging in interested in putting together a solid, static theme for the MUSH to run on, and we're brainstorming ideas for it (i.e. central location, Firewall-focused or not, etc.).

If you're interested, log on in and talk with me (or send me a PM). No MUSH coding knowledge (or even MUSH knowledge, really) required to participate.

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